PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

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stewil
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PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby stewil » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:59 pm

The new Daytona Coupe by TSM arrived and got my juices flowing, so I created a new display. This one shows how the speed problem at LeMans evolved and was resolved by Shelby/Ford. Aero design considerations made all the difference.
I hope you enjoy the show.

Had a Cobra but also needed an LM Coupe and all I could find was one by Model BOX, and the price was right @ $20 including shipping. Had to do some work on it though.

Took it apart and painted steering wheel and instrument rings.
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Then added instrument decals and black fuel filler to the roof fuel cap, as per reference photos.
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Instruments close up
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Finished
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And put the display together. Can you read the speeds achieved?
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Neither can I.

Original 1963 Cobra, 4.7L, 157 MPH max @ LM
A real aerodynamic "brick"

1963 Cobra LM Coupe, 4.7L, 163 MPH max @ LM
The sleek new hardtop did help the "brick" a bit

1964 Cobra Daytona Coupe, 4.7L, 196 MPH max @ LM.
A 30 MPH increase is huge and shows what a difference paying attention to aero makes on long straights like the Mulsanne at LeMans.
The Daytona coupes essentially won the World Sports Car Championship for the USA against the iconic Ferrari GTO's.

1967 Ford MK IV, 7L, 220 MPH max @ LM
A one year runner, the overall winner at LeMans in '67 but the 7L engine was banned for 1968. Smaller engines had to do in 1968.

1968 & 69 Ford GT40, 4.9L, 210 MPH max @ LM
So the John Weyer Gulf team dusted off the older GT40 and won LeMans with this same car, as #9 in '68 & as #6 in '69.

Missing from this display is the LM winning 1966 MKII 7L GT40, 215 MPH max @ LM, for a lack of space.
But here it is in the large LeMans display. :lol:
Image

OOPS - Don't know where that average speed came from but it should be 130.1 MPH avg. Will confirm and change the label. :oops:
Answer - 210.8 KPH was listed in my reference book.
Last edited by stewil on Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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DeadCanDanceR
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby DeadCanDanceR » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:49 am

Very nice, as usual! ;)

Kindest regards, Steve!
-Julio-

Image

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stewil
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby stewil » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:29 pm

Kindly regarded Julio. :D
Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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JSB33
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby JSB33 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:14 am

Seeing your extensive display I am once again struck with the thought that we really need some more 427 Cobra's. I know Spark has one red one released but we need some Comp cars.
Jeff
ImageImage

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Tom
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby Tom » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:46 am

Love that display and the work you did on the Cobra!

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Baxter
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby Baxter » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:41 pm

JSB33 wrote:Seeing your extensive display I am once again struck with the thought that we really need some more 427 Cobra's. I know Spark has one red one released but we need some Comp cars.


I feel the opposite. We have too many 427 Cobras - Kyosho, Bang, Schuco, Del Prado and Yat Ming. We need a 289 Cobra, something I believe Minichamps promised about nine years ago. I think theirs was actually a 260.

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JSB33
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby JSB33 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:49 pm

Baxter wrote:
JSB33 wrote:Seeing your extensive display I am once again struck with the thought that we really need some more 427 Cobra's. I know Spark has one red one released but we need some Comp cars.


I feel the opposite. We have too many 427 Cobras - Kyosho, Bang, Schuco, Del Prado and Yat Ming. We need a 289 Cobra, something I believe Minichamps promised about nine years ago. I think theirs was actually a 260.


I guess I should have said a decent 427.... :roll:

The Kyosho is a turd

Bang does a strange looking hybrid Cobra, the body looks like it has some 427 cues but then they release it in 289 Cobra liveries.

Have never seen a Schuco in a collection, only crappy ebay pictures but what i have seen is not good.
Image

The Yat Ming/Del Prado are old tooling and minimal detail. I an looking for something that will be comparable to my Spark Cobras.

Spark can hook you up with a 289
Image

Here is my lineup
Image
Jeff
ImageImage

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Baxter
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby Baxter » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:12 pm

I like the Kyosho but I don't know Cobras that well. I've seen so many replicas that I don't know what the real thing looks like any more. I like the Spark and prefer the 289 in general.

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stewil
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby stewil » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:17 am

Thanks for your comments Tom, Baxter, and Jeff,
And Jeff, What a nice flock of Cobras you have, and here are some pics of my two 427 Cobras.

This Marsh model is very good IMHO
Image

Image

and a Kyosho from a significant motor cars display which looks pretty good. Noticed it could use some wheel and knock off paint attention though, and the vents detailed too.
Image
Last edited by stewil on Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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Jager
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby Jager » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:30 pm

stewil wrote:1963 Cobra LM Coupe, 4.7L, 163 MPH max @ LM
The sleek new hardtop did help the "brick" a bit

1964 Cobra Daytona Coupe, 4.7L, 196 MPH max @ LM.
A 30 MPH increase is huge and shows what a difference paying attention to aero makes on long straights like the Mulsanne at LeMans.
The Daytona coupes essentially won the World Sports Car Championship for the USA against the iconic Ferrari GTO's.

1967 Ford MK IV, 7L, 220 MPH max @ LM
A one year runner, the overall winner at LeMans in '67 but the 7L engine was banned for 1968. Smaller engines had to do in 1968.

1968 & 69 Ford GT40, 4.9L, 210 MPH max @ LM
So the John Weyer Gulf team dusted off the older GT40 and won LeMans with this same car, as #9 in '68 & as #6 in '69.



Stewil, top speed is only a very small part of the equation. Look at the qualifying lap times at Le Mans whch are much, much closer than the top speed would suggest :

1963 Cobra LM Coupe 4.7L: 04:12.4 (car #3)

1964 Cobra Daytona Coupe 4.7L : 03:56.1 (car #5)

1965 Cobra Daytona Coupe 4.7L: 03:51.3 (car #9)

1966 Ford GT40 7.0L : 03:30.6 (car #3)

1967 Ford Mk IV 7.0L : 03:24.4 (car #2)
1967 Mirage M1 5.7L : 03:36.3 (car #15)

1968 Ford GT40 4.9L : 03:39.8 (car #9)


One thing to note; John Wyer didn't "dust off the older GT40 and win LeMans". The 1968 and 1969 cars were effectively new, re-built cars with lightweight bodywork built on the 1967 Mirage chassis to the GT40 specifications.
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

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stewil
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby stewil » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:01 pm

Hi Jager,
Much appreciate your reply and the lap time comparisons. Just wish a 427 Cobra had run at LM for another comparison.
Stewil, top speed is only a very small part of the equation. Look at the qualifying lap times at Le Mans which are much, much closer than the top speed would suggest :

So very true, but I was trying to illustrate how aero design relates to speed vs discussing the many compromises needed to increase lowered lap times. To me the Cobra roadster vs the Daytona Coupe does this very well. The GT40 and MKIV's aero design showed an even greater evolution in speed even though similar engines were being used across these platforms (4.7L - 4.9L - 7L Ford engines).

One thing to note; John Wyer didn't "dust off the older GT40 and win LeMans". The 1968 and 1969 cars were effectively new, re-built cars with lightweight bodywork built on the 1967 Mirage chassis to the GT40 specifications.

I love the look of the similar Mirage and it's shaply hardtop in comparison to the GT40's,
Image

However, John Horsman who ran the John Weyer team and wrote a wonderful book called Racing in the Rain stated on page 118-119 that chassis GT40P/1075 which won Le Mans in 1968 and 1969 "was not an ex-Mirage chassis as has been claimed elsewhere. It was an original GT 40 chassis with the above modifications."
I found that interesting when I went back to the book after you mentioned the Mirage chassis. The other GT 40s, #'s 1074 and 1076 did have a Mirage chassis. I missed these facts on first reading. Thank you for reminding me of the Mirage linkage to the GT 40. :D
Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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Jager
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby Jager » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:46 pm

Thanks Stewil, I also seem to recall reading that the winning car was built on a new chassis.

I edited the post above to add the 5.7L Mirages to the comparison. I like the Mirage too and have one of the Bizarre LM cars from 1967.
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

R32Dave
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Re: PICS - Cobra / Ford GT display

Postby R32Dave » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:34 pm

stewil wrote:Hi Jager,
Much appreciate your reply and the lap time comparisons. Just wish a 427 Cobra had run at LM for another comparison.
Stewil, top speed is only a very small part of the equation. Look at the qualifying lap times at Le Mans which are much, much closer than the top speed would suggest :

So very true, but I was trying to illustrate how aero design relates to speed vs discussing the many compromises needed to increase lowered lap times. To me the Cobra roadster vs the Daytona Coupe does this very well. The GT40 and MKIV's aero design showed an even greater evolution in speed even though similar engines were being used across these platforms (4.7L - 4.9L - 7L Ford engines).

One thing to note; John Wyer didn't "dust off the older GT40 and win LeMans". The 1968 and 1969 cars were effectively new, re-built cars with lightweight bodywork built on the 1967 Mirage chassis to the GT40 specifications.

I love the look of the similar Mirage and it's shaply hardtop in comparison to the GT40's,
Image

However, John Horsman who ran the John Weyer team and wrote a wonderful book called Racing in the Rain stated on page 118-119 that chassis GT40P/1075 which won Le Mans in 1968 and 1969 "was not an ex-Mirage chassis as has been claimed elsewhere. It was an original GT 40 chassis with the above modifications."
I found that interesting when I went back to the book after you mentioned the Mirage chassis. The other GT 40s, #'s 1074 and 1076 did have a Mirage chassis. I missed these facts on first reading. Thank you for reminding me of the Mirage linkage to the GT 40. :D



I like the detailed pit area diplay Sewil - very innovative!

D


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